Take a step back. The U.S. has an interest in Ukraine succeeding. Our problems in the world get better. If Ukraine survives and prospers. And if Russia wins, our problems get worse. It’s been quite a week. The Trump plan for Ukraine, as we understand it, could work and was getting some traction. Cease fire in place. British and French led force in Ukraine. Maybe with American backup. A minerals deal with Ukraine that gives President Trump the ability to say, yeah, I’ve got a stake in this that could come together. And now this. Now this blowup. Let’s hope. Best case that they pull it together. You know, President Trump loves drama for for TV. Let’s hope that they can pull it together, sign the minerals deal, move forward, because the U.S., the Trump administration, could succeed and Trump could get what he wants, which is to push back on Putin, be seen as doing so and be seen as a peacemaker. Now, I realize that this may be completely fanciful in the next few hours. This all blows up. I get that. But my job for 40 years, Foreign Service officer, is to try to look at the way forward. And there is a way forward, which is why my frustration is that the administration keeps stepping on its own policy. This this fight in the Oval was not necessary, especially because Zelensky is actually working. According according to Trump’s plan, he’s ready to sign the deal. He’s I suspect he’s ready to accept a cease fire if he gets enough security. Trump could win if he has the discipline to see it through. You’ve been in many rooms with world leaders for very sensitive negotiations. I’m guessing you two have never seen anything quite like that. Did it feel authentic? Did it feel spontaneous, or was there some show business with cameras and microphones in the room today? That’s a good question. I watched it carefully. I think Vice President Vance was provoking Zelensky. I think Zelensky could have answered it differently. He was trying to explain the details. That’s not what I would have done or advised him to do. But then you had the president and the vice president basically bullying a Democratic leader who is fighting for his freedom and ours. So I don’t see what American interest is and is advanced by having this fight. Was it deliberate? Was it an ambush? Mm. It’s possible. But the larger question remains, what do we get out of having a fight? I know what Putin gets. What do we get? We get a lot if Ukraine succeeds, and especially if we get the British and French to carry the heavy load of the the security burden. That’s quite a success for Trump. Success for America. I’m all on board. But the administration has to follow its own plan and not get distracted by this stuff. Well, on your point, Ambassador, about it being in U.S. interests to see Ukraine succeed to the extent it can, it did seem we saw a presence. Lynskey Trying to make that point when he suggested, yes, I know you’re here on the other side of the Atlantic, but you could ultimately feel this. President Trump pushed back on that, saying, you know, don’t tell us what to feel. But also then leader suggested Zelensky right now is toying with World War three, which presumably would involve the U.S.. Somehow we aren’t immune to conflicts like that as we saw with the prior World War. So which is it? Yeah, President Trump was just wrong about that. We thought we were safe behind two oceans and then Pearl Harbor. Right. We figured it out fast. We can’t be the lonely bastion of freedom in the world. That’s what Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan taught us. And that’s it. That’s the right lesson. And it is. The Trump administration, in its more wise moments, understood that we’re in a period of great peril rivalry. And we have adversaries Russia, China, Iran. So, yeah, let’s work with our friends to contend with our adversaries. And Ukraine is our friend. Maybe a little difficult some time, but still. But the president today didn’t seem to characterize Russia as an adversary necessarily when he was asked, do you feel in the middle? He said, I’m for both Ukraine and Russia. How did you interpret that? Well, that’s not the language I would have used. And I don’t think our position at the U.N. was very good on Monday, where we supported a weak resolution. But if that’s the way President Trump wants to play it, okay, play it that way, but then land the deal. And the deal has to provide for Ukraine security, because if it doesn’t, then we’ve been suckered by the Russians. And, you know, diplomacy, don’t be the sucker. We love talking with practitioners. You’re a career diplomat. Bring us into the room. And maybe not an extreme like this, but when a meeting devolves, the reporters have left. Who is in the diplomatic delegation? Who gets their arms around this? Do people go to separate rooms? What do you do now as a diplomat? When the meeting just blew up in your face, you advise your principal on how to fix it. What do you do to set it right? And you and what do you do in terms of what’s possible for you politically? And you know, someone like me is supposed to find a way forward. So, you know, if I were advising President Trump, I would say, look, you made your point. Now tell Zelensky, make light of it. Tell us, Olinsky, we need a deal. Let’s show people after we’ve pushed back that we can do that. But you get the boss alone in a room right now. Everyone goes, Cool off for a minute. I need to talk to you about the national security. This is the job for the national security adviser. And I think my balls as serious person. And he was right in there. That’s right. You know, I also think that Zelensky should zelensky’s people should figure out a way for him to approach Trump and make clear that, yeah, he’s grateful to the United States. And yeah, we hope he appreciates Trump’s role in pushing things forward. Say that it’s true enough and it will help. So at moments like this, the pros scramble. Don’t ring your hands. Don’t complain. Figure out what you’re going to do. Figure out the way forward and do it fast. They will have this news conference. KELLY Well, I was just about to ask, Ambassador, do you have confidence that they are able to do that and we’ll see these two having corrected or taken the break that they need facing the press once again this afternoon? I’m in an impossible position because you know just how wrong I am. I would say this because it’s Donald Trump who loves drama and twists and turns. He could easily decide to pull it back. He could. Now, I’m not saying he will, but I don’t think all is necessarily lost. Right. He loves TV drama and he’s got one going. But the drop, you don’t look that drama. If you continue the fight, you get more attention and put yourself maybe in a stronger tactical, tactical position. If you can come out and say, yeah, that was rough, but we’ve agreed so. I if I were advising the president, I would say, okay, you pushed hard now lands. Land a deal. If you’re Donald Trump, you can take credit for saving this day, can’t you, if things go right. That would be my advice. Again, they’re not going to ask me. But somebody like me who’s supposed to advise the president on how to succeed on his terms. Ambassador, I apologize for interrupting, but we just got a statement from the president which reads as follows. It was. It’s amazing what comes out through emotion. And I have determined that President Zelinski is not ready for peace if America is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don’t want advantage. I want peace. He goes on to say he disrespected the United States of America and its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. Well, pretty remarkable here. Well, that’s unfortunate. Especially because we showed no similar toughness in New York on Monday with a weak U.N. resolution.
